Jack Russell of enduring rock band Great White gets the deep dive treatment in a new autobiography written by local author K.L. Doty, “The True Tale of Mista Bone: A Rock + Roll Narrative.”
K.L. Doty joins me in Geneva to chat about the book as we enjoy award-winning food from FoxFire Restaurant in Geneva (17 West State Street). FoxFire’s the real deal, having most recently been named 2023 Steakhouse of the Year and 2024 Best Steak in Kane County.
Owner/Chef KC Gulbro brought some of his menu into the car. I had the Certified Angus Beef Blackberry Brie Burger (Applewood smoked bacon, hoisin- blackberry jam, melted brie cheese, and pickled jalapenos on a pretzel roll). K.L. enjoyed the Avocado Salmon (Scottish salmon, tomato basil risotto with avocado pesto sauce, sliced avocado, grated pecorino, and lemon zest).
We recorded this episode on a painfully hot July day, and both my camera and phone (which manages the camera) overheated multiple times. Were it not for those issues, the conversation would likely have gone way longer. Next time!
Visit FoxFire online at foxfiregeneva.com
Learn more about K.L., and grab a copy of the book at jackrussellbook.com
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(APPLE PODCASTS TRANSCRIPT)
This right here is Car Con Carne, a Q101 podcast.
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I’m recording today at FoxFire.
It is a return to FoxFire, a crown jewel in the town of Geneva, the 2023 Steakhouse of the Year, 2024 Best Steak in Cane County.
In the back seat from FoxFire, it is owner and chef KC Gulbro.
Nice to see you again.
Nice to be here.
Thanks for having me.
And to my right, in the front seat, it is author KL.
Doty, whose new book, you need to hold it up, it’s coming soon, The True Tale of Mista Bone, A Rock and Roll Narrative.
It is Jack Russell’s life story, Jack Russell of Great White.
We’re going to talk about the book.
We’re going to talk about rock and roll.
We’re going to talk about food.
In fact, we’re going to start with food because we are right outside FoxFire.
It is an award-winning restaurant.
Are you hungry?
I’m starving.
Perfect.
We’re here.
We’re here on what has to be the hottest day of summer so far.
The AC is not going to save us.
I’m clear on that.
But, Chef, what do you have packaged up for us here?
Well, today we got some cream spinach, our wonderful and brand new item to our menu, our avocado salmon, and then a blackberry and brie burger, which is a half pound certified Angus Beef burger with melted brie, blackberry hoisin sauce, pickled jalapenos, and bacon.
Now, I requested that and I generally, I don’t do a whole lot of sweet and savory mixes, but this seems like a great combo.
Oh, it’s a great combo.
And you get a little bit of bacon on there.
It just sings in your mouth.
The avocado salmon is a very popular hit.
We’ve sold about 15 of them last night.
Just the combos of avocado, our pesto, the risotto just screams summer.
Oh, there’s risotto in it, too.
Oh, yeah.
And that’s what you ordered ahead.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
All right.
Let’s let’s send these forward and I’ll scan as the best.
Creamed spinach.
You want me to open them for you?
I can kind of do it.
This is the creamed spinach.
This this is going to be trouble.
This is why we’re recording at noon.
So I’m going to nap when I get home.
You ordered the best thing for TV.
I did.
Oh, look at this.
All right, hang on.
Is that a pretzel bun?
That is a pretzel bun.
This is going to be gluttonous.
And of course, you’re shaming me by doing the salmon.
Yeah.
It’s got to be healthy.
It’s got to be healthy.
Gorgeous.
Yeah, but aren’t I kind of silly for ordering fish at a steakhouse?
Oh, no.
We get our seafood in fresh daily.
Wonderful salmon.
Oh, look at the bed of risotto.
Oh, that looks magnificent.
So, the pesto is on top of the salmon and the salmon is on top of the risotto.
Okay.
That looks gorgeous.
Can I get a quick shot of that?
Nice layers.
It’s got a lot of flavor.
What if I just dropped it?
Worst things to happen in the sky.
Oh, look at that.
I mean, for something that we’re doing, carry out, which isn’t really…
There we go.
That’s super fresh, man.
That’s hot.
It is.
A presentation for a carry out order, top notch.
Well, thank you.
All right, so we’re going to eat and talk.
Are you going to stick around for a couple minutes, Chef?
Catch us up with FoxFire?
Well I can, or I can, I just noticed that our silverware is coming.
If you look in your rear view mirror, they did not put it in the bag.
Okay, you go take care of that.
Before we cut you loose, one, thank you for the hospitality.
Can’t wait to dig in.
Two, give us a quick elevator pitch for FoxFire.
Elevator pitch?
Alright, well FoxFire Steakhouse in Geneva.
We’re right off of State Street, which is Route 38.
Open for lunch and dinner Monday through Saturday.
Open for dinner on Sunday.
Live entertainment on the weekends.
And Steakhouse of the Year by Certified Angus Beef.
We serve nothing but the best.
Family owned and operated for over 21 years.
There it is.
Thank you, Chef.
Thank you.
I love coming here, and what a great location right off the Fox.
Great spot.
Oh, yeah, we love it here, Geneva’s beautiful town, and it’s got great people.
We couldn’t be happier where we are.
We wouldn’t be here without them.
Awesome.
Thank you, sir.
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
And I’ll get the silverware for you.
It’s right by your door.
Oh, perfect.
God bless everyone.
I’m willing to eat the cream sandwich or cream spinach with my hands, but…
You could drink it.
It really is.
Accent on creamy.
Yeah.
Amazing.
And I’ll leave the bag back here for leftovers.
Smart man.
Here’s the cream spinach.
Nice to meet you.
See, this is my favorite thing, when I could do a restaurant guest and a musician or author.
Like I like the cross-pollination of lifestyles and people and all that.
Oh, yeah.
Everyone’s a big happy family.
Well, I think…
I’ve said this before about craft breweries, but I think it’s also true of restaurants.
I think that the hustle that independent restaurant and brewery owners experience isn’t that much different from the creative hustle, a writer or…
It’s all…
It’s absolutely all the same.
I mean, you’re trying to build community.
You’re trying to build audience and you’re being scrappy and creative along the way in order to do so.
Yes.
And always met with obstacles.
Always.
Yes.
So let’s talk about this book as we eat.
OK, and I will periodically stop to take a bite, make pleasing sounds or sounds of food delight.
That’s OK.
There’s a napkin in here.
Right.
This is this is the challenge.
There’s one thin paper napkin.
My hands are already filthy.
Thank you.
Oh, look at this.
It’s like a Kleenex.
We’re really dining together.
We really are.
There’s something just insanely dumb but also awesome about having a steakhouse lunch in a 12 year old Mazda.
I can’t even I can’t even open my mouth to eat this.
Is this the part where we’re both quiet for a second and this is the washing sounds with their mouth?
This is absolutely that part.
That’s fantastic.
It’s burning my knees.
It’s so hot.
It’s so hot.
It’s burning my knees.
Right through right through the nose.
This burger is pretty great.
The blueberry is really good.
I love Brie.
Look at that thing.
I know.
This is really good.
And the bacon really ties the whole thing together.
Oh my goodness.
So I love risotto too.
That’s a complicated, simple dish.
Like risotto on its own is a pain in the ass to make.
It tastes like my mother made it, honestly.
That’s a high compliment, absolutely it is.
That’s supposed to be a compliment.
Cliché compliment.
All right, so let’s talk about your book.
Yeah.
How long have you been working on this?
Oh my gosh, okay.
Let’s start there.
Too long.
Well, four years.
It’ll be four years in September, so.
Writing some essay process.
Very.
Do you write, as you approach this book, it’s a biography, and you worked, Jack Russell on this, did you approach it in a linear way or did you kind of bounce around?
Oh my god.
Well, I thought I was going to approach it in a linear way, right?
And that’s what made me think that the process was going to be easy, which is so stupid.
But you know, you end up, there’s so much information on the table, you have to bounce around and I was the only one.
I was, it was just me.
I somehow thought I was going to have help.
I don’t know.
I don’t know what I was thinking, but yeah, I had to bounce around a lot gathering information.
You know, I didn’t realize that I was going to be designing the cover, for instance.
And that’s something.
This is totally DIY.
Yeah.
And how did you, I guess let’s start with why Jack Russell?
Why his story?
Well, it fell into my lap, basically.
So I can’t say that this is a story that I would have chosen to write only because I didn’t know that it existed.
So it was September of 2020.
I had just finished almost two years of studying with the New York Institute of Art and Design Design to be a wardrobe stylist.
And it was a lot of work.
And I remember thinking, I don’t ever want to do that much work again.
And my husband got a phone call from Robbie Lochner, who’s in Jack’s band.
He’s Jack’s guitarist.
And Robbie said, your husband chips enough chips enough of enough enough.
That’s right.
And Robbie asked if I would be willing to write Jack’s story, to which I said, no.
Right out of the gate, you said no.
You rejected it.
I said no right away.
Yeah.
I said no multiple times over the course of a few years, actually, because Robbie and Jack, Team Jack was aware that I have a literary background.
So I had been approached a number of times and every time I said no.
But for some reason in the middle of the night after I had been asked in September of 2020, I woke up and I realized something’s pressing on me.
And it was absolutely the knowledge that I needed to write Jack’s book.
So you started working on this book.
I don’t want to bury the lead.
What’s the plan for release?
Surprise.
The book is out.
Wait, what?
Yeah, the book is out and I can’t officially announce it for two more days, but I mean, this is the first time I’m mentioning it on camera.
So.
Well, congratulations.
Thank you very much.
I thought it was still down the road.
So did I.
So something that I learned is that when you do pre-order, pre-order allows you to have a publishing date set ahead.
So people know, okay, the book’s going to come out on such and such date, but we did not do pre-order.
So when the files are available, they’re available.
Awesome.
Yeah.
All right.
So here we go.
The book is now available, The True Tale of Mista Bone, Rock and Roll Narrative.
It is Jack White’s, or Jack White, Jack Russell of Great White, his life story.
Now, obviously you were connected to Jack, but were you also a fan?
I mean, I remember the Once Bitten and Twice Shy albums in the 80s, like big records, big impact.
Oh yeah, of course I was a fan.
Oh my gosh.
I toured with Jack, actually.
I toured with Jack back in 2017, 2016, 2017, so I got pretty familiar with his catalog then.
But you know, I was a kid when the fire happened.
I was a child.
Obviously you cover that in the book.
I do cover that in the book, yes.
I don’t want to cover it here.
It’s covered in the book.
But the station in Rhode Island, horrible, cataclysmic night.
If you’re telling the story, you can’t, as a journalist, you can’t ignore that one.
Yeah, and I will make a note that it’s very important that people understand that this book is not about the fire.
This is about Jack beyond all of that because unfortunately that event made people think so poorly of him even though he was not at fault for it.
So this is him getting to tell people, hey, this is who I am, this is who you didn’t know I was.
Well, and what did you learn?
What did you learn about him?
Who is he?
Okay, Jack has a great sense of humor and if you don’t get it, you’re not funny.
I think you have to have a good sense of humor to have a life in Rock and Roll.
That’s a really good point, yeah.
It’s such an unreal way to live.
Oh, yeah, like the time I got into a little screaming match with Motley Crue’s tour manager backstage two years ago, but that’s another story for another time.
Got to laugh it off.
I would like to get to that at some point, if not today, down the road.
So who is Jack?
He’s got a good sense of humor.
Jack has a great sense of humor.
He’s a very sweet man and you know, I interviewed quite a few people for this book and they all said the same thing.
Which in itself is a ton of work.
It’s a whole other project.
Yeah, exactly.
This book is written in four parts and the fourth part is a collection of all of those interviews.
So Jack is a really sweet man and they all have the same thing to say.
It’s not like they talked to each other beforehand and said, we’re all going to say he’s a sweet guy.
He’s a really sweet guy.
And he’s very sensitive.
And we’re a lot alike, which is not something that I expected to encounter.
But it really did help in writing his story.
As you started working on it, were there barriers?
Like did it take a while to break him down or was he just, did he give you everything out of the gate?
You know, I hear Chip do interviews all of the time.
I hear my husband do interviews all the time and he tends to give the same response over and over.
So I’m very used to hearing journalists ask a question and then, oh, I know what’s coming.
So I think for Jack, it was kind of the same thing.
So I would ask a question and it sounded very much like he’s answered this before.
So all right, so my phone just overheated, but now we’re back, we’re rolling.
It’s hot out.
It’s 90 degrees.
I know.
Why am I wearing a scarf?
Because you’re fashionable.
Yeah.
Why am I not wearing a scarf is really the question.
I’ll bring you one next time.
Thank you.
Oh, you know what I have?
Hang on.
Yeah.
This is this is a game changer.
That burger was so damn good.
I have wipes if you need them.
Although you’ve got a fork.
You’re in better shape than me with the blueberry and brie.
Like literally the most disgusting thing to eat on camera.
The most delicious thing to eat, the most disgusting thing to eat on camera.
I give you props though.
I got over worrying about that stuff years ago.
Like it’s just it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be.
It’s fine.
All right.
Back to The True Tale of Mista Bone, a rock and roll narrative, Jack Russell’s life story.
It is available now.
Where is it available?
Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever books are sold, but main site is gatekeeperpress.com and then that’s the publisher.
Fantastic.
Okay.
Back to the Great White story that you cover and tell me about the Great White trajectory because pop culture shifted after those two big records I mentioned in the 80s and artists like Great White maybe lost their moment in the spotlight.
Is that something addressed in the book?
It is.
And that would be due to grunge.
Yep.
Yeah.
I mean, it just, there was a seismic pop culture shift.
Yeah, that’s well said.
So how is, how did Jack Russell respond to that?
As we’ll learn in the book.
Yeah, let’s go to chapter, no, I’m just kidding.
How did Jack Russell respond to that?
You know, he always says that he, that’s all that he had for his life was to play music, so he had to make it work.
He says very specifically that he made sure he had nothing to fall back on, so that he had to make it work.
So even though.
That’s a perilous position to take.
But I mean, I get it.
Yes, right.
Walk in the edge, but that’s something he and I have in common too.
So I completely understand that you just have to do something, go all in exactly.
The book is out now.
Yeah.
You’ve been touring with bands since you were a kid.
Yeah.
I mean, you’ve surrounded yourself with rock and roll since a young age.
So you’ve seen you’ve seen a lot.
I have.
Did you just grow up fascinated by the industry?
You know, my family is connected to the industry, so I had that going for me.
My grandmother would host these incredible parties and she always had people of note there.
I remember the tour or not the tour manager, a security guard for Def Leppard was there.
And I remember, I don’t know, maybe I was like eight or nine and I remember going through his address book.
His physical handwritten address book as one would have back then.
Yeah.
And were you just freaking out seeing names that you only knew from the record store?
No, I mean, I didn’t necessarily know who I was looking at.
I just knew that he knew people.
I was curious.
But, you know, he had, who did she, James Gandolfini, Ted Mason of Modern English, her best friend, Pam Dauber.
From Mork & Mindy.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Amazing.
So, I was around that sort of Hollywood rock and roll life at a very young age and I just knew that I needed to be a part of it.
Times were different then.
So times were different just 15 years ago.
They were different 10 years ago.
So I would lie and say that I was covering a story for a certain magazine when I absolutely was not.
I would still write the story and pitch it to the magazine so I wasn’t fully lying.
But you were able to, I mean, they would put you on the list.
Management would put you on the list.
Talk about your experience.
Who did you tour with?
Who did you bounce around with?
So the first major tour I ended up on was an Ashley Simpson tour.
And yeah, it was like my first major tour bus that I was ever on.
And I just remember, I don’t even remember how I ended up on the road.
I just did.
And I remember having to go buy clothes the next day at like the local dollar store.
All right.
So The True Tale of Mista Bone, A Rock and Roll Narrative, Jack Russell’s Life Story is available.
Now, can we get a shot of that book again?
The one I just spilled water all over.
Could be worse.
There we go.
Yee-haw.
Real thing.
1.8 pounds.
And what a badass black and white picture of him it is.
Thank you, Mark.
Mark Weiss took that.
It’s awesome.
So with this done, this out in the universe, are you already thinking about what you’re going to write about next?
You just want to get through this cycle.
You want to get through talking about this and…
Yes.
I say when people ask me, what is your biggest piece of advice for writing a book?
I say, don’t do it.
Really?
Now that you’re holding it in your hands and other people can read it, it doesn’t change your perspective?
Um, um, um.
No.
There’s a lot to unpack there.
It is.
It is a lot.
How do you know when you’re done as a writer?
It’s I mean, super cliche, right, I guess, but your heart tells you.
But I will say that as you’re writing, you envision what it would be like to be done and then you are and you’re like, that was highly anticlimactic.
What now?
So you don’t like overly finesse and like fine tune to the point of oblivion.
You’re like, you know, in the product.
Oh, no, 100%.
You fine tune to the point of oblivion.
Yeah, that’s why I say don’t do it.
Just jump ship.
Get out.
Maybe do some needle point or start it seriously.
Start a garden.
Actually, that’s what I’m doing now.
I’m gardening because it’s something so minute and mundane in a way that it’s just not something I ever had time to do.
Well, it feels it’s fulfilling like you see the results of your labor.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
kldoty.com is your website.
Jack Russell book is where we can find this and read it.
Congratulations on getting to the finish line.
Thank you.
I know it’s a messy process, but you did it.
The book is out.
The story of Jack Russell, if you think you know just from the headlines, you don’t.
That’s why you should read this book.
Yeah.
I also want to thank, how about that food?
Really good.
Really good.
We are here at FoxFire in Geneva.
Thanks again to Chef Gulbro for putting together delicious food.
My burger was so good, admittedly not the most perfect thing to eat on camera.
You did it.
You just got a muscle through, I’ve lost my shame muscle a long time ago.
And I have an extra napkin I could have given you this whole time.
Damn it.
Alright, so nice to meet you.
Good luck with the book.
Can’t wait to see what you do next.
Thank you.
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Keep making it about fun.
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